Artem Crezee: The Future of Initial Coin Offerings
Guest Artem Crezee
Bitcoin/Blockchain Enthusiast since 2013. 2014 has become the year of changes when I entered the doors of CoinTelegraph. I was working as the CMO and tried to show my best in developing growth, sales and marketing.
In August 2015 I founded my own project Investors’ Angel – Blockchain Investments Consultancy agency. Investors’ Angel has helped to raise $800k for Blockchain-oriented startups up to this moment.
Since the beginning of July 2016 I am also working on the decentralized collaboration platform for experts called Decopla.
Since August 2016 I have become the Director at CoinTelegraph Events focused on holding Blockchain conferences all over the world
The Future of Initial Coin Offerings
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- How Not To Be Scammed By An Initial Coin Offering
Ameer: Hey guys! Welcome to another episode of Block Geeks live podcast. I’ve got my good friend, Artem Crezee today.
Now, this is Artem’s quick bio. He has been a Bitcoin and Blockchain enthusiast since 2013. He’s also formally the CMO of CoinTelegraph and in 2015, he founded one of the first-ever angel Blockchain investment fund and has raised over $800,000 in investing into Blockchain startups. And he’s currently the CEO of CoinTelegraph Events.
Artem, welcome to Block Geeks live podcast. How are you doing, brother?
Artem: Thank you. Thank you, Ameer. Thank you for the invitation. And great to be here today.
So yeah. Actually, I don’t think that it was the first angel investment stuff in the Blockchain but…
Ameer: One of the firsts.
Artem: Well, maybe yeah. Maybe yeah. But that was a good experience, but I didn’t like it. So, finally I’m CoinTelegraph again.
Ameer: So, jumping into our conversation today. Given the current landscape of cryptocurrency and Blockchain, what would you say is the most exciting avenue for you right now?
Artem: So personally, I see really a great variety of Blockchain solutions from different industries – supply chain, content contribution, music industry, crowdfunding. It’s booming really, crowdfunding and Blockchain. It’s like crazy real.
Ameer: It’s crazy real.
Artem: People are raising millions in just days. I know many guys, my friends, my partners, that have raised money on ICO just providing good marketing or just on the community, writing good posts, creating some really great of news atmosphere – let’s call it this way – and really raising good funds like it is hundreds of thousands of dollars.
So, what really makes me mad, I guess, it’s crowdfunding on Blockchain. It’s IoT solution and IP rights for sure. Supply chain, we can also call that.
So I would like me to talk may be firstly about one of these solutions or…
Ameer: Yeah. Let us jump into the crowdfunding because the ICOs right now have been super hot. It seems like almost every single day you hear of a new ICO and everybody’s trying to raise or kind of get into the goldrush. It kind of reminds me – well, I’m still young. I’m only 31 – but it kind of reminds me of when everybody’s trying to rush into Silicon Valley in early ‘90s or in the .com verse. Everyone’s is trying to like millions of dollars putting on everything and everyone thinks they are going to become like the next Bill Gates and become a billionaire. So, why don’t we talk about this actually because a lot of people, they see the benefits of ICO and there is a lot of benefits — new way of investing, new wave of liquidity – and kind of creates a different commodity, but also kind of democratizes availability for investing with people around the world. What would you say are the main strengths of ICOs? And let’s put that around afterwards. And explain to us what are the main weaknesses of ICOs?
Artem: So, as for the main strengths, I guess it’s… for me it’s evident, it’s firstly why ICOs are really successful is because people invest money from any part of the world. If you know English well, if you can pay for creating good English texts, you can raise money from any person from any part of the world using cryptocurrency.
But there are millions of such people, right? So that’s, I guess, for me, that’s the main strength of ICO. Secondly of course is, the second strength is that in the ICO, you can immediately trade these tokens. So of course that what makes people mad, that’s where they want to make their money. And doing that, just the Blockchain digitally with no borders really makes people invest their own money. So, right now I guess that’s everything in ICO. It’s really… So, the main weakness is, of course, the legal part because it can just go to the hands of all ICO holders, right?
Artem: So, after they will come and then in some countries, it will be wholly regulated. It’s starting to being regulated already. For example right now in Russia, a lot of stuff is happening around regulating, not only ICOs but cryptocurrency. I guess you’ve heard of that. So, maybe in some years, we’ll see how some people even go to jail because that just because they have raised so much funds, they have so much of obligations. They have so many money that they need to spend, but they even sometimes don’t have the vision of how to spend that. And of course, they will be sometimes. So that’s the main weakness and everyone understands that in a few years it will be wholly regulated. Right now it’s a weakness. So, that’s what I think about ICOs for now briefly.
Ameer: So, let me ask you this about ICOs.
Ameer: As the marketplace matures, what would you suggest for people to do to improve the ecosystem of ICOs?
Artem: To improve the ecosystem of ICOs. So from the perspective of the ICO holders or from the perspective of the investor?
Ameer: Let’s say both. Give us a tip from both sides.
Artem: Okay. So from the, I say, holder perspective, it’s pretty easy, right?
So, right now if you have really, really a good pitch.
Artem: If you have straight vision of what you would like to get in the future, if you have good marketing instruments and audience around you, you have everything. So it’s… pick up some advisers, pay for good marketing and the thing is done. And I know many people that have done that already.
And after taking all of that money, they can easily spend it, right? So they transfer it to Bitcoins, they exchange it on Exchanges and then they pay for something.
Artem: So in the future, as I’ve said, it will be wholly regulated. So maybe they can already start thinking about how they can regulate their own ICO. So not regulate, but maybe make it much more legal. The Bitcoin business and the Blockchain business should start being legal. And we see many companies right now licensing their projects. They are going in actually into a regulated, into industries that are highly regulated.
So, all ICO holders right now, they should think about making their company’s ICOs legal. So, that’s my opinion.
As for investors, they should be just… You know, when there are millions of dollars raised, there are a lot of counterfeit. There a lot of scams. So, in the past, we saw a lot of Scamcoins. Thousands of them, right? So, they appeared, they are premined. I don’t know billions of these coins, people invested in them and then they disappeared. Same here, when people can easily send money from any part of the world and they want to do that because they see the boom of the ICOs. They see that after investing in these tokens, they go up. The prices of the tokens go up and they can exchange it and then earn some money. A lot of scams appear.
The main opinion of mine is that they should investigate a lot. For example, I…
Ameer: Let me pause. Do you think there should be rules? Like for example, when a company IPOs, there’s regulations where you can actually liquidate your stocks for X amount of time?
Ameer: Do you think that there should be rules like that where you can’t liquidate any of your tokens on any exchanges for, let’s say, six months?
Artem: I haven’t thought about that.
Ameer: Because right now there’s two things stopping it, so people are trying to pump and dump. It happens all the time. You look at the ICOs. People are going to buy it for a dollar and then sell it for ten dollars or 70% of the whole market for that coin is liquidated out. So, there’s two things that happened to make that possible: a) Exchanges accept that token. That’s the first thing. Exchanges are actually willing to do changes. And number two, there is no time limit. So as soon as I buy it today, as soon as it’s open and everything, I can just go on whatever exchange accepts it and I just dump everything.
Artem: Yeah. But right now, some of the tokens, they are already traded on exchanges. So for example, Poloniex, you can find a lot of the tokens traded there.
Artem: Any of them like SEM/EDS or I don’t know waves something like that.
Artem: I don’t want to say waves but SEM/EDS 100%, for example. So, what’s the question? You mean that…
Ameer: Well, let’s say make ICOs more applicable and safer for, let’s say, bigger hedge funds to come in or more like seasoned investors. Like for example, the people that I know, they are kind of they’re – I want to say scared — but they’re very cautious of the fact that it’s too easily manipulated and they are at the mercy of the exchange which has… Hey, I’m just being honest. I can have inside information. I have no idea who they are or what they are doing to tell you truth. And b) nothing’s stopping for some [inaudible 9:57] just bought X amount of that token to dump it tomorrow.
Artem: Yeah. But you know the same can happen right now with any currency like Bitcoin which is the biggest fund, right?
Artem: It’s just like…
Ameer: This is the thing though. So there’s ICOs where you buy a token and you actually get shares within the company itself. And then, I guess, there’s ICOs which is just strictly tokenization. You have no equity within the actual company itself. So maybe we can say that if you have an ICO, that your token is actually tied to the shares of your company, then maybe it would make sense that you have a time limit that people can’t just buy and dump the coin within like the first 2-3 weeks.
Artem: Yeah. That’s why. Regarding that, I was already thinking about that. I was doing one project together with one of the – I won’t tell his name, but he is involved in Ethereum.
Artem: Actually, we’re thinking about that but it’s too hard right now. Like it’s almost impossible to link tokens to your actual action.
Artem: So, it’s So right now, there is only a possibility to say, to promise maybe that you will think that too but people won’t believe in that.
Artem: Yeah. I know some of theof them. So the persons that I know, they wholly believe that it’s the future of crowdfunding, that it’s the future of trading and all that stuff.
So, I believe these persons. And I believe that in their countries, they are actually making it legal. So, they are talking to governments. They are attending the workshops. They are attending meet-ups. They are talking to regulators and they are making it legal. They are talking to students. So for such people, I believe them. And I wholly believe that they will make it legal.
But as I’ve said already, there are scams that are happening as well.
Ameer: Do you have some tips for us to kind of look out? Like what are some kind telltale signs, like “Oh! That could be a scam.”?
Artem: Okay. So, let me think. For example in the past, in 2014, when I was looking for different currencies to invest or projects, I was just coming to Bitcointalk. You’ve heard about it, right?
Artem: And there are really a lot of very wise people – let’s call it this way – that know a lot about this stuff and they provide their own experience with these projects. They analyze a lot and firstly when you invest, you go to Bitcointalk and every single ICO or whatever, they just have it on Bitcointalk. So firstly, go there, take a look at the comments. Take a look at how people react there. Take a look at the ratings of the people that comments. And so that’s very important firstly. Because if you just read their site and make a decision or investment depending on what they have just written on their site, it’s possible. So first if anywhere in the world, you should go and find some comments and analytics and so on. So, I can’t say that I have some tips really for finding the best investment in the world, but especially in ICOs, but definitely go to farms, go to media publications like CoinTelegraph if they have written something about that. Because usually articles on such publications, big publications, they analyze and so on. So pay attention to that and really spend some time like if you want to make an investment anywhere.
Ameer: Do you have any favorite ICOs that you saw in the past or that are coming up that you like?
Artem: So yeah. There are some ICOs that I’m really impressed by. I haven’t invested in any ICO ever.
Ameer: You need both. [laughs]
Artem: Yeah. It’s good. So I’m telling a lot about that. I’m talking to people that do the ICOs and successful in it, but I’ve never actually invested in that.
Artem: But what amazes me is, of course, the… can I name any companies?
Ameer: Yeah. Go for it.
Artem: The thing that really amaze me is the crowdfunding around the ICO of waves platform. Have you heard of them?
Ameer: I’ve heard them. Yes.
Artem: Right now, they have positioned themselves as a crowdfunding platform for like a customized platform for tokens, so where you issue your own tokens and do the ICO, do the crowdfunding and then trade these tokens. So it’s like what we are talking about right now.
Artem: They have raised over 17 million dollars.
Artem: So, when I talked to Alexander Baunov. He is in Moscow. He is the founder. I asked him like “So, what is the key to the success of raising 17 million dollars?” And he just told me like “You should have a good product and a good marketing.
Artem: So nothing changes. It’s like, you know, and that’s it. They just have a thread on Bitcointalk. They have some good marketing partners. And people believe in their idea and that’s it!
So it’s like in real world, you know, crypto is not different at all. It’s just based on the technology, on another technology which is not yet known by the majority of the people around.
Ameer: Do you know the… what’s the business model for waves?
Artem: I’m not so sure.
Artem: Maybe right now they even don’t earn money. I won’t tell anything. Maybe right now they don’t earn money. But if they have positioned themselves for the crowdfunding platform maybe there will be like a percentage from them.
Ameer: Percentage from them. Exactly.
Artem: Percentage from. You can just visit this site but personally I don’t know what’s the business model for now but 17 million dollars were raised.
Artem: Yeah. So I guess people see something there. But maybe here it’s based not on the business model but on their own tokens.
Ameer: Own tokens, yeah. Everyone’s looking for Arbitrage right now.
Artem: No. Yeah.
Ameer: Buy for $4, sell for $10.
Artem: So yeah. They can easily trade their own tokens, right?
Artem: So why not do this and just provide free service.
Artem: So with the 17 million dollars, they can live, I guess, some 10-15 years with a small team and just raise more and more money. Why not?
Ameer: Okay. So switching gears, you mentioned at the beginning we’re talking about a little bit IoT, actually before this call.
Ameer: How do you see Blockchain and IoT coming together?
Artem: Okay. That’s one of the most interesting subjects which I was thinking about and talking to different people, meeting with founders and linking – let’s say, linking a physical world, right?
Artem: The Blockchain really makes me mad because not so long ago, I was talking to the guy. He’s actually the entrepreneur, the Blockchain entrepreneur. And they provide proof of ownership for any high value item such as bicycle, for example.
So just imagine that using their app, you can permanently register your possession into the Blockchain. And for example in case of theft, you will easily track it back to the legitimate owner. So, it’s wholly facilitated in recovery. So just imagine you have a bicycle, you have proof of ownership…
Ameer: How would you put the bike up onto? How would you take the physical product and digitize it onto a Blockchain?
Artem: You mean how I…
Ameer: Yes. I have the bike here and let’s say I have my phone or maybe I go somewhere, how am I actually going to take this bike or what’s on this bike? Is it like an RFID? Is it a number? How am I taking this bike and then digitizing it?
Artem: So yeah. You have a number. Let’s say, it’s a digital identity of your bike.
Artem: Right. But we can go further and the just embed microchips, for example.
Artem: Or and then the microchips, they will have a radio signals, right?
Ameer: Mm-hmm. RFID, yeah.
Artem: Yeah. And we’ll just use your iPhone and android and just look for the signal. So, it’s pretty easy. Using that signal, you can easily buy the product. So for example, you buy the product. You verify the product, right?
Artem: At the same time, using the app, you can set the identification and put it on sale.
Just imagine, for example, if Michelangelo 1,000 years ago could really prove ownership of his arts, so what will be the price of it right now? If we know for sure that it was, for example, created 1000 years ago – I don’t know how many years — who was the owner during these 1000 years? For how many or how much time they were the owner? So, what will be the price of Michelangelo paintings? It will be expensive, more expensive or less expensive?
Ameer: Probably less expensive.
Artem: [chuckles] Who knows?
Ameer: I don’t know, man! The myth is gone. Who knows? Maybe the myth is behind the painting.
Artem: Yeah. But that will definitely change our lives if we know for sure when it was registered, who was the owner, when… it’s crazy, you know.
Ameer: I see IoT for high-value item is very important. I know EverLedger’s doing that with De Beers and diamonds without taking the rock itself from the quarry and they have this like $200,000 photography machine. And they put the rock in the machine and digitize it. It takes a light spectrum all these different variables. And now, that goes up to the Blockchain because you as a wholesaler, they’re buying millions of dollars from De Beers. Right now, the only way to verify something is called the Elizabeth certificate which is just a fucking piece of paper. That’s all it is.
Artem: Yeah. And we’re getting this stuff. So you are talking about Beer, but let’s talk people.
Artem: So just imagine right now there are millions of refugees
Artem: Without any birth certificates because they were lost in the war.
Artem: And just imagine that all of that people, they have birth certificates on the Blockchain.
Artem: There will be no problems for them really. Right now, much less problems, much less work. And all of them would live.
Ameer: Well, the World Bank, not the World Bank but the World Economic Forum said roughly there is 1.9 billion people who are unbankable people at the moment. Governments will not give them bank accounts or whatever the circumstances maybe, they don’t have any access to any government banks. Therefore, they can’t move money in and outside of the country whatsoever. And a lot of that has to do with identification.
Artem: Absolutely. When we are talking about proof of identification from Blockchain, let’s talk about just Bitcoin. So Bitcoin is the gift for these people right now.
Yesterday, I talked to a non-bank guy. He was a refugee some years ago. Right now he’s a European Union citizen. But he told me a lot about what life he had when he was in the refugee camp. And only Bitcoin saved his life…
Artem: …because he really… he didn’t have a bank. He couldn’t earn money because he didn’t have the certificate of his birth. He simply didn’t have anything to live. But using Bitcoin, he accepted donations. He earned money in the internet and he received Bitcoins for this work. And because of Bitcoin, he saved his life, right?
And even if I don’t know 10 years ago, he could prove his existence actually on the Blockchain, maybe he will get the old European Union passport much easier.
So in the future, we will have nations of the Blockchain. You’ve heard about this Bitnation, right?
Ameer: Yes, I have. Yeah.
Artem: So, we will cross the borders without holding these passports.
Artem: So, we will have all of our documents notarized, we will have patents proved through the Blockchain. Right now, there’s a lot of paperwork for start-up just to have a patent done. So just imagine you can have it for seconds and then you sell it, for example.
Ameer: That’s the whole mechanism on the government bureaucracy. It takes time and it’s slow.
Artem: Yes. That’s why they don’t want that. They don’t want that now.
Ameer: Like I always tell people that your technology can be the greatest technology possible, but there’s many different variables for adaptation within the society – geopolitics, culture, government. And this one that people don’t really take into consideration, timing.
Artem: Yeah. So you mean that adapting Blockchain will take too much time.
Ameer: I think a lot of people painted it as the solution that can fix a lot of things. I’m a firm believer as progressively working up as opposed like exponentially jumping. Like look at Bitcoin, timing was perfect. It came out right at 2008 during a big economic crash – people are losing all their houses, the banks have to get bailed out. The timing was impeccable. Whoever is or was the group or whoever considers themselves associated, they know exactly what they’re doing or he or she doing. The timing was impeccable. And I’m a firm believer that timing is really important for everything. I’ll give an example the other day, the first electric car was created in 1896.
Artem: 1896? I didn’t know that.
Ameer: 1896. 121 years laater. And still even though we have Tesla and all these other companies working still, it’s not ubiquitous. It’s not like you walk outside like it’s “Oh! Look at all the luxury cars!”
Ameer: Yeah. It’s only now that the cars are slowly starting out, that the economics makes sense and the marketplace makes sense. People don’t want to spend money on diesel or whatever just regular petroleum gas.
So, I’m a firm believer in timing and situations of the country itself. I think Blockchain… for example, I’m here in Canada. From a day-to-day basis, people won’t benefit it. Like for us because they don’t feel the pain. There’s no real pain. Your banking system is good. The government is pretty good. But when I look at China, I look at Russia, I look at India, I look at the even my cousins from Yugoslavia, I look at all these different countries, those countries can benefit a million times more than I can benefit over here. And in fact when I look at a lot of these startups… like Russia is a gold mine. So many from Ukraine to Russia, even all of Eastern Europe, so many Blockchain-related startups are popping up. And India too. India is like a volcano of startups. Almost every single day, I get emails from Mumbai and these hotbeds. People are really hungry for change. And because they’re hungry, they’re hustling every day in trying to figure out solutions for the problems. To think in North America, Canada and United States included is we’re too comfortable, right?
Ameer: That’s a thing, right? I’m serious. It’s very comfortable and you really don’t have any problems beating on the head saying, “Oh, I have to fix this under pressure.”
Artem: Yeah. I agree with you. But speaking about Russia and India for example or any European country, there is a lot of bureaucracy, but there is a lot of money still in there.
Ameer: Of course.
Artem: There is such kind of solution for transparency. S0 for example, in Ukraine right now, because all of the solutions that make the government transparent, they come from there. From Middle East and from, I guess, I don’t know China but India for sure, they develop a lot of such stuff.
Yeah. I fully agree with you that for the conditions around you, they make you do something, right?
But in case of the fact that you’ve said you’re comfortable, right? Yeah. Maybe you’re comfortable, but anyway you live under the government. You have to pay taxes.
Ameer: Of course. We’re in a semi socialist government.
Artem: So, you have to pay the banks, right? But things might change when the people have no borders and payments.
Artem: For example, in b2b payments, there are already no borders.
Ameer: Well, I’ll tell you what’s going to change. I was going to tell you what’s going to affect everybody no matter what. It happens in cycles. And I love the guy. He’s one of the most intellectual people I know, Ray Dalio. So if you study his macro micro scales of economics, he runs if not the biggest hedge fund in the world, Bridgewater. And no matter what, if you look at the federal reserves, there will be a currency, in general, right? We’re going to have crashes coming out in the future. We’re going to have multiple crashes coming out in the future.
Ameer: The last big crash was ’08. And if you’re looking to charts right now, people are saying maybe anywhere between 2-5 years or maybe even sooner – I’m not too sure — a next crash is going to happen. I don’t know if it’s going to be the real estate crash that happen with the mortgages in the United States. It can be maybe education crash. I think I don’t know how accurate this is. An absurd amount that I heard over something like 500 billion dollars is owed to education because everyone is taking out loans and they can’t even pay it back because is no productivity, there’s not enough jobs etc. etc. Even if you claim bankruptcy, that doesn’t really help you because you can’t claim bankruptcy on your student loans like in North America. Yeah, in North America and United States, you can’t claim bankruptcy on your student loans which is ridiculous, right?
So the question is who owns the rights to all this debt? Like who has the billions of billions of dollars? I don’t know. And where’s the money coming from? I don’t know. So the crash is happening, and then when that crash does happen and it will happen, then people are going to be like “What other options do I have?”
Artem: So yeah, we see that it happens in terms of the crash and just in terms of some really solid changes like right now.
Artem: When they have deleted the cash, not deleted the cash but…
Ameer: They took away two currencies.
Artem: Yeah. And we saw like really, really dump of the bitcoin price, right?
Artem: I know what you’re speaking about. The timing, right? But when you told about the Bitcoin 2009 and the good timing, it was good timing, but it was really under the war, right? So I guess for sure, it should be good timing. People should understand what it is.
Artem: That’s very important that people didn’t understand what’s that and it shouldn’t be under the war. There was very bad marketing around Bitcoin at that time.
Ameer: Yes, it is.
Artem: People use that for, I don’t know, buying drugs or buying prostitutes.
Ameer: What do people use regular money for? People say it’s not the currency they use for illegal stuff. I’m like “What currency isn’t used for illegal stuff?”
Artem: Absolutely. But that was the main use of Bitcoin at that time.
Artem: People simply were scared of using that because… but right now the time is changing. I’m approached by different people not telling that Bitcoin is used for drugs. They do understand that it’s used like a currency without borders. Let’s call it this way. That’s how I’m calling Bitcoin. I don’t say it’s crypto. People don’t know what’s crypto.
Ameer: In the future, they won’t be crypto. They’re just going to be currency.
Artem: Yeah. So Bitcoin just a world global currency.
Artem: Yes. So it is not digital. Digital is also… for some people, they don’t know what’s digital. It’s just global currency that everybody can use without any borders. And that’s the future. The same with… yeah.
Ameer: So let me ask you this. What will it take to kind of mature this whole ecosystem? Do we need more education? Do we need more people to enter the field? What will take to take it to the next level?
Artem: So in my opinion, right now, that’s actually what I’m trying to do with my company right now. So, education for entrepreneurs, for C-level managers, for developers. These are like the three guys – let’s call them guys – that are building the projects and that are developing the projects. They are making it working as business. They are making it really useful by people. So we should provide them with education — what Blockchain is, how it can be implemented in different industries and what is mostly important, how they can implemented it into their own projects, into their own environments. Especially, it should work with corporates right now because they’re providing huge interest and trust to the community.
Artem: For corporates, we should definitely work with them and educate this stuff. But they are doing that themselves, of course, but there is a huge, huge opportunity to come them and say, “Yeah, we’re going to do that. So, education is the first thing.
And after education, you should provide them with platforms where they can meet and where they can spin up the process.
We see a lot of conferences happening right now and that’s also very good.
Ameer: You have a conference coming up soon, don’t you?
Artem: Yeah. It’s done together with CoinTelegraph, so it’s under the CoinTelegraph Events umbrella. And it’s called BlockShow Europe. So it’s wholly dedicated to actually showcasing Blockchain solutions from the different variety of industries which we discussed today with you, Ameer, like supply chain, IoT. Entrepreneurs from different industries will come and showcase their solutions.
It’s happening on April 6 in Munich. And especially for all of your viewers, I can provide a special 25% discount.
Ameer: That would be amazing! Thank you so much.
Artem: Just when entering our site, it’s events.cointelegraph.com. Just use the coupon code: blockgeeks. And that’s it, you will have a 25% discount.
Ameer: I’ll make sure I also put that in the show notes for everybody
Artem: Yeah sure. I know you’re in Canada, but the conference is in Munich, but feel free to come. But anyway in some years, maybe in a year or a year and a half, we will have a conference in USA and there, you will sure be able to come.
Ameer: Beautiful. Well, Artem, I just want to thank you so much for coming on the Block Geeks live podcast.
And I recommend everyone go check out CoinTelegraph Events. Everything will be in the show notes. So once again, thank you so much and have a great day!
Artem: Yeah. Ameer, thank you so much for this invitation and have a great day too!
Ameer: Thank you.